Scott Langley is the first non-Japanese graduate of the JAPAN KARATE SHOTOKAI two-year instructor's course. This feat is no less than incredible, as everybody who been to Japan knows first hand, being a JKS kenshusei is no less than brutal. Scott, besides being an ex-world champion and world class martial artist, is a kind hearted gentleman, who reflects the true spirit of karate-do. Currently, Scott is the Technical Director of the JKS in Ireland, and teaches full-time there and abroad. He has also helped graciously with Japan Karate Shotokai (NZ) administration. I would like to once again thank Scott for his willingness to do this most informative interview. (Andre Bertel)


          Andre: When did you begin training in JKA style Shotokan karate-do and who were your instructors/main influences?
          Scott: I started karate when I was 11 yrs old. I think it was KUGB although I am not too sure. I had just moved from Liverpool to West Yorkshire and my friend's father was a black belt at karate. Until I had left Liverpool I had practised Jujitsu and wanted to continue in the martial arts. I went along for about six months before we moved again from West Yorkshire to North Yorkshire. In North Yorkshire I started with Howard Milson. He was a 5th Dan back in the mid 1980s and was an incredible teacher. He had been to Japan in 1972 and was very talented. He was a gifted teacher who combined humour with great teaching ideas and perfect technique. I still try to emulate him now. His instructor was Kato sensei. When I left North Yorkshire to go to University I went to Keele University which is 15km from Kato sensei's dojo. I trained with him daily for 4 years and he was a great influence on me also. He is a karate genius. Some instructors are famous for their technique, others for their fighting spirit. Kato sensei had these in abundance, however, his true talent was in teaching. He could take any technique and twist it, turn it, and make you rethink the whole concept of something you thought was very straight forward. He had an amazing gift.

          Andre: What are the technical differences between JKS and IJKA?
          Scott: There are none.

          Andre: This year the JKS World Championships are officially including the IJKA as well. There seems to be a lot of confusion internationally about the connection between the JKS and IJKA. As a person who has trained extensively in both of these world-class organisations can you clarify this connection?
          Scott: This is a very politically sensitive question; however, I will try to answer honestly. The JKS is the legitimate continuation of the Asai fraction of the JKA. In 1999 the Asai fraction of the JKA gave up the court case and conceded defeat. Therefore, from 2000 we were renamed JKS. A new hombu dojo was opened and a new instructors' class was started (Inada and I being the first entrants). Since this time the JKS has continued to grow in numbers and standards, continuing to have a number of world champions in our dojo's. The history of the IJKA is somewhat more colourful. In the mid 1990's there was confusion in Europe when two or more organisations were claiming affiliation to the Asai fraction of the JKA. Up until that point Kato sensei, based in UK, was the European Chief Instructor for the JKA. However, during 1995/6 other groups began advertising affiliation and were running courses with JKA (Asai fraction) instructors like Yahara sensei, Abe sensei, Sumi sensei and many others. Then towards the end of 1996 Kato sensei's group began calling itself IJKA. As far as I remember, the reason given for this was that it was a way of protecting ourselves just in case we lost the court case with the other side of the JKA, and could no longer use the name: This reason wasn't questioned too much and we carried on training. In the summer or 1997 I moved to Japan to find that the Asai fraction was stilled called JKA and this continued until 1999. As far as I can make out there were deep divisions within the JKA during the mid 1990's. I may be wrong as I wasn't personally there, however, certain members of the JKA didn't want Kato sensei heading up the JKA within Europe. Kato sensei had very few allies within Japan and as a result he was expelled from the JKA at this time. However, Asai sensei was very close to Kato sensei and didn't want the ties he had with Kato sensei and his very large organisation to be cut. Therefore, Asai sensei formed the IJKA, which was completely independent of the JKS, and allowed Kato sensei to head up the IJKA in Europe. As a result there has been constant battles between the JKS and IJKA within Europe ever since. None of the Honbu dojo sensei will teach at IJKA dojos and most of IJKA members still believe that they are the legitimate representatives of the Asai fraction of the JKA, as Asai sensei still continues to teach at IJKA technical seminars. Fortunately, as time goes by, more and more IJKA members are realising the true situation and affiliating directly with Japan and the JKS. Hopefully this anomalous situation will not continue for long.

          Andre: As the first and only non-Japanese graduate of the two-year JKS Kenshusei keiko (instructors course), could you give us an outline of the typical kihon found in daily training? On my six training stints in Japan I have always found it to be very `defined' training unlike the highly complex kihon often found in the West. Was there a standard or consistent set of kihon or renzokuwaza (combination techniques) that you followed daily on the instructors' course? What basic techniques made up your typical training?
          Scott: I am the first graduate of the JKS Kenshusei/Shugyosei course (Shugyosei is foreign kenshusei. We are not expected to stay on in Japan and teach at the honbu dojo and, therefore, are given the name Shugyosei - someone who trains to the extreme). However, before me on the JKA course there was Richard Amos, Pemba Tamon, Malcom Fischer (although I think his license was taken off him) and Leon. I am the fifth. Kihon training always started with facing the mirror and doing between 50-100 gyaku tsuki (each hand), 50-100 mae geri (each leg and then about 50 yoko geri (each leg). We would then move to the back of the dojo and do kihon, 10 up the dojo and 10 back again. We would go through each technique speed and power. Apart from oi tsuki, we would do combinations of two (ie age uke - gyaku tsuki, mae geri - oi tsuki, shuto uke - nukite). We would do this for about 45 minutes non stop. After that we would do freestyle combinations. One of us would choose a combination and we would do it ten times to count. We would often do this using tubing as resistance and ten of us would choose a combination. Combinations would be simple exercises of two or three techniques (ie kizami tsuki - gyaku tsuki, gyaku tsuki - mawashi geri -gyaku tsuki). Afterwards we would go on to do kumite and kata.

          Andre: How much training interaction did you have with the members of the Teikyo University Karate club? And why do you think Teikyo is so dominant at the Japan Karate Shotokai and Japan Karate-Do Federation competitions? For example, current JKF Men's individual kata champion, Tsuchiya Sensei. Also, your fellow kenshusei keiko graduate and JKS honbu instructor, Inada Sensei (who is the current World Games under 70kg Kumite champion).
          Scott: We trained with them a lot. I had to do the autumn training camp with them in my first year (the hardest thing I have ever done) and the Teikyo team often came to train on the instructors' course. They were good, young lads, who were very brave.

          Andre: In your opinion, why do they have so much success at competition level?
          Scott: Because of two things, firstly they are taught by Kagawa sensei and secondly the simply train the hardest. At Teikyo no one is allowed to have an easy time. The first year intake may consist of national junior champions and complete beginners, but they are all thrown into the same situation, forced to do the same training and suffer the same consequences if the don't produce the results. The regime is very strict and Kagawa sensei puts them under an enormous amount of pressure. Whilst training with them I often couldn't believe how much pressure these young (and very innocent) 18 years olds were put under or how they could survive it for four very long years. However, they are free to leave at any time (and some do) and if they don't, by their forth year they are probably amongst the best karateka in Japan.

          Andre: How often does Kagawa Sensei teach at Teikyo University?
          Scott: Kagawa sensei teaches about 3/4 times a week at Teikyo. He teaches the Instructors course every day (5 times a week). He teaches normal hombu dojo classes twice a week and he also teaches the Army once a week: I think.

          Andre: You have many titles including JKA World Kata Champion. What is your tokui (favourite/specialised) kata and how do you feel kata relates to kumite and self-defence? Are you competing at the JKS World Championships this year? And if so, will you compete in both kata and kumite?
          Scott: My favourite kata's are Sochin and Unsu. When I won the World Championships I did Unsu, although I don't get to practise it much nowadays (something I am trying to rectify). And yes I will be competing in both kata and kumite at this years championship. I think kata is all about learning biomechanics. Many people go on and on about bunkai and the true meaning of kata. Bunkai has its place, but often I feel they misunderstand the point. Sometimes gedan barai is just gedan barai. I have seen so many articles going on about the hidden meaning of, for example, the heian kata, but they are simply training kata. The application of the first gedan barai in heian shodan isn't blocking mae geri, nor blocking a bo attack. Nor is it using the preparation of the block as nagashi uke to then follow through gedan tettsui. It is simply a way of learning how to do gedan barai correctly. The true application is to teach you correct hip rotation, timing, kime and weight distribution. (However, please don't misunderstand me. I do think bunkai has its place and kata does have meaning. It is often fun and challenging to search for different meaning in kata, but that search should never eclipse the technique itself). So if we except that kata are the study of biomechanics then kata has a direct connection to self defence and kumite. We are unable to do anything unless we understand how to use our bodies. The greater understanding we have the more we can do. After serious study, the techniques themselves (karate itself) become meaningless and we are left with what we started with, two legs, two arms, a head and a body. Through karate we have understood how to use our body correctly and thus can use it in any situation. We no longer defend with an age uke nor attack with an oi tsuki; we simply act and react with out bodies: I think that is a rather long-winded way of saying that I think the study of kata is very important indeed to understanding self-defence and kumite. I think we should all train in the hope that out training will eventually become meaningless.

          Andre: Do you teach the Asai kata in Ireland and if so, which ones? I actually prefer them over the standard Shotokan kata. Can you explain to the readers the value of these kata in addition to the commonly practised 26 Shotokan kata?
          Scott: Yes, I occasionally teach them, usually Junro shodan, Gyaku tsuki no kata, Hi no te, Mizu no te and Meikyo nidan. The reason I teach them is that they offer something different - an unusual way to study biomechanics. I never ask my students to remember them past the training session, all I ask them to do is to remember the unique way they teach you how to use your body. However, I only teach them to brown and black belts.

          Andre: Do you believe the five Junro kata will eventually become compulsory at future JKS competitions in the second round of eliminations in between the six basic kata and the `big four'?
          Scott: I hope not. People should concentrate on Shotokan kata.

          Andre: Japan Karate Shotokai is obviously very fortunate to have Asai Sensei (9th Dan) as its chief instructor and founder, and Kagawa Sensei (7th Dan) as its Technical Director. With your extensive involvement with both of these masters in what ways have they technically influenced your karate?
          Scott: I have been influenced more by Kagawa sensei. He has such perfect technique and I simply want to be able to move like he does. His ultimate gift is that he taught me how to train. Through training with him on the course I was able to see what it takes to constantly improve and develop. That has been the greatest influence out of all my instructors. He showed me how to find my own way. Asai sensei has incredible karate, however, it is very different from everyone else. I love studying kata from Asai sensei and wish I had had more chance to do so whilst in Japan.

          Andre: Every Monday between lessons at the Honbu dojo, Kagawa Sensei uses his rest times to push heavy weights! Kagawa Sensei trains hard out throughout the classes, and when everyone is taking a short break between classes, he is still training hard out! Do you advocate such weight training in your personal training, and if so, what exercises do you recommend for karateka?
          Scott: I actually don't like weight training. I have always had a big frame and been quite muscular. The Japanese, naturally, aren't. As a result I don't do much training with weights, whereas people like Inada are always doing weight in an effort to get a little bigger. If you are going to do it, I recommend high reps/low weight training. However, I do a lot of tube training. This is great for increasing speed and twitch muscle, and because you do it with the technique you develop the specific muscle group that is needed for the technique.

          Andre: Living and training in Japan last year, all the seniors at JKS Honbu dojo really recommended your classes, superb technical ability, and genuine character. What in your opinion is the nucleus of running/structuring an excellent lesson and being a world-class instructor?
          Scott: I think the most important thing it to be natural. When teaching you must show your character and give it to your students. Karate sensei must understand that teaching is all about the relationship between oneself and the class. It is about give and take and is not a one directional relationship. If you give everything then the students can't help giving everything as well and at the end of the day that is what a good sensei should aim to do, to get the most out of their students. I also personally feel that it is very important to demonstrate and train hard in a class. Often I am sweating just as much, if not more, than my students. I can not ask them to do anything that I can not do.

          Andre: Now that you are based in Ireland and are Technical Director of the JKS Great Britain & Ireland, are you willing to travel abroad to share your extensive knowledge with JKS/IJKA member federations in nations such as New Zealand and Australia? Secondly, what can someone expect from a course with Scott Langely?
          Scott: Unfortunately, I will not teach at IJKA dojo. Since coming back to Europe certain members of the IJKA have tried their hardest to destroy my career and reputation. I know it is a very political position, but I must protect myself and I wouldn't want to legitimise their position by endorsing their dojo. However, that aside, I love teaching at different dojo's. Since leaving Japan I have taught extensively in Europe, America and the sub-continent and have enjoyed every minute. I have taught at JKS & JKA dojo's and also for smaller independent groups. I am living my dream and I take great pleasure in doing the job I do. As for what to expect from a course with me: That's a difficult one. One of the most valuable lessons that I learnt from Kato sensei was to develop my own ideas. I take great pride in the lessons I teach because they are 100% mine. Often when I have trained with different instructors they have been carbon-copies of their instructors. Their training methods are simply recycled exercises and I really hate this type of lazy teaching. When I teach I always try to teach good traditional JKS Shotokan karate but through my ideas, my exercises and my methods. If I simply taught the same stuff that Kagawa sensei teaches then I am wasting my students' time. If they wanted that, they could simply invite Kagawa sensei and get the real thing. If people invite me to do a course then I want to give them my idea and methods because at the end of the day that is what they paid for.

          Andre: Lastly, what are your future aims in karate-do? And is there anything you would like to express to those reading this?
          Scott: My future aims? To maintain a healthy insecurity about my own karate. This way I will always push myself to become stronger and better. The last thing I want to do is to start thinking that I have achieved anything. I simply always want to look forward and never look back. To the readers I would like to say three things. Firstly, thank you for reading to the end. I hope I haven't bored you. Secondly, I would like to say that karate is about the maximization of our body's efficiency. It is not about learning techniques. Karate techniques are simply a means to an end. You should never lose sight of this. And thirdly, no one person has all the answers. The views that I expressed in this interview is only my interpretation of what karate is. Karate is so wide and so deep that it is easy to get lost. You must be careful that you are finding your own way and not just following someone else's.

          Andre: Thank you very much Scott for taking time out of your busy schedule to give this interview.


Copyright ¿ Andre Bertel, JKS New Zealand